https://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Luck (secondary skill) - Revision history2024-03-28T21:39:37ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.40.1https://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=54001&oldid=prevImahero at 14:00, 18 May 20212021-05-18T14:00:29Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Discussion ==</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Having high [[luck]] is unquestionably valuable in combat. For several reasons, however, Luck is only a mediocre [[secondary skill]]:</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Maximum positive [[luck]] is +3. This may already be obtained through artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. [[Fountain of Fortune]]), so often there is little need to also spend a secondary skill slot on it.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Lucky strikes are not sufficiently numerous or powerful to rival the bonus damage of [[Archery]] or [[Offense]]. Even when expert Luck increases [[luck]] from 0 to +3, the resulting average bonus damage is 2.4 times lower than what expert Offense provides to [[melee|melee attacks]], and 4 times lower than what expert Archery provides to [[ranged unit|ranged attacks]]. </del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Luck is unpredictable and therefore cannot be relied on when planning fights.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== thanks ==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== thanks ==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,</div></td></tr>
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</table>Imaherohttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=31660&oldid=prevImahero at 20:29, 29 March 20182018-03-29T20:29:12Z<p></p>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Discussion ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Having high [[luck]] is unquestionably valuable in combat. For several reasons, however, Luck is only a mediocre [[secondary skill]]:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Maximum positive [[luck]] is +3. This may already be obtained through artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. [[Fountain of Fortune]]), so often there is little need to also spend a secondary skill slot on it.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Lucky strikes are not sufficiently numerous or powerful to rival the bonus damage of [[Archery]] or [[Offense]]. Even when expert Luck increases [[luck]] from 0 to +3, the resulting average bonus damage is 2.4 times lower than what expert Offense provides to [[melee|melee attacks]], and 4 times lower than what expert Archery provides to [[ranged unit|ranged attacks]]. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Luck is unpredictable and therefore cannot be relied on when planning fights.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== thanks ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay with cutting down the length and number of arguments for not choosing Luck.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay with cutting down the length and number of arguments for not choosing Luck.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I answer here between the paragraphs, hope that is okay. I have tried to follow a principle to keep articles short and to the point. People come here for the information, and there are too many long and complicated texts in this world already. :P --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I answer here between the paragraphs, hope that is okay. I have tried to follow a principle to keep articles short and to the point. People come here for the information, and there are too many long and complicated texts in this world already. :P --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== minor suggestions ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I just have some minor suggestions that may be useful for the current arguments: "Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)." I feel this is only an argument against choosing Luck as a skill because the maximum luck is +3. If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when you already have +3 luck (meaning you could have +6 luck), then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer be a substitute for the skill. So perhaps it is useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I just have some minor suggestions that may be useful for the current arguments: "Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)." I feel this is only an argument against choosing Luck as a skill because the maximum luck is +3. If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when you already have +3 luck (meaning you could have +6 luck), then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer be a substitute for the skill. So perhaps it is useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I see your point now. And may I say, it is supposed to be an argument against choosing luck. But you have case here. Perhaps it should be just rephrased in another way. Now I got the impression, that Luck makes things worse, which is not true. It is just not worthwhile. --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I see your point now. And may I say, it is supposed to be an argument against choosing luck. But you have case here. Perhaps it should be just rephrased in another way. Now I got the impression, that Luck makes things worse, which is not true. It is just not worthwhile. --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== lucky strike ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed." This is a good point of course - damage is doubled only when no other damage bonuses are present. However, this is also true for Archery and Offense (their bonus damage is often less than 50% for Archery and less than 30% for Offense), yet both these skills are quite popular. So perhaps some sort of argument can be made here that lucky strikes simply do not occur frequently enough to increase the bonus damage more than Archery and Offense do? -[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 19:46, 10 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed." This is a good point of course - damage is doubled only when no other damage bonuses are present. However, this is also true for Archery and Offense (their bonus damage is often less than 50% for Archery and less than 30% for Offense), yet both these skills are quite popular. So perhaps some sort of argument can be made here that lucky strikes simply do not occur frequently enough to increase the bonus damage more than Archery and Offense do? -[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 19:46, 10 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
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</table>Imaherohttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=20489&oldid=prevKapteeni Ruoska at 04:42, 2 July 20152015-07-02T04:42:37Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: The right side was just saying where the list of secondary skills was. Maybe I worded that badly, but you have fixed the problem, so thank you.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: The right side was just saying where the list of secondary skills was. Maybe I worded that badly, but you have fixed the problem, so thank you.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::: It would not be the first time that the problem is my undestanding. ;) Anyway, problem solved. –[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] ([[User talk:Kapteeni Ruoska|talk]]) 06:42, 2 July 2015 (CEST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Kapteeni Ruoskahttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=20488&oldid=prevIbraesil: /* List at the right side. */2015-07-01T13:04:13Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">List at the right side.</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: I managed to fix the bold-issue by editing the templates link reference. However, I did not understand whta you ment by the comment about right side. In my Luck page seems identical with every other skill page. –[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] ([[User talk:Kapteeni Ruoska|talk]]) 09:57, 1 July 2015 (CEST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: I managed to fix the bold-issue by editing the templates link reference. However, I did not understand whta you ment by the comment about right side. In my Luck page seems identical with every other skill page. –[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] ([[User talk:Kapteeni Ruoska|talk]]) 09:57, 1 July 2015 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
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</table>Ibraesilhttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=20487&oldid=prevKapteeni Ruoska at 07:57, 1 July 20152015-07-01T07:57:20Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>For all the other secondary skill articles, the skill is in '''bold''' and isn't a link in the list of secondary skills at the right side of the article. This is not the case with Luck, and I couldn't work out how to fix it.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>For all the other secondary skill articles, the skill is in '''bold''' and isn't a link in the list of secondary skills at the right side of the article. This is not the case with Luck, and I couldn't work out how to fix it.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: I managed to fix the bold-issue by editing the templates link reference. However, I did not understand whta you ment by the comment about right side. In my Luck page seems identical with every other skill page. –[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] ([[User talk:Kapteeni Ruoska|talk]]) 09:57, 1 July 2015 (CEST)</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Kapteeni Ruoskahttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=20485&oldid=prevIbraesil: /* List at the right side. */ new section2015-07-01T07:45:22Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">List at the right side.: </span> new section</span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Your point about brevity is well taken :-). I'll see what I can add to the arguments here without making it too long-winded. As always, feel free to let me know what you think, of course. -[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 08:23, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Your point about brevity is well taken :-). I'll see what I can add to the arguments here without making it too long-winded. As always, feel free to let me know what you think, of course. -[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 08:23, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">For all the other secondary skill articles, the skill is in '''bold''' and isn't a link in the list of secondary skills at the right side of the article. This is not the case with Luck, and I couldn't work out how to fix it.</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Ibraesilhttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=18469&oldid=prevEntelechy at 06:23, 11 July 20142014-07-11T06:23:42Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:You are correct. This is not a good argument against luck, even if it is a good point. The work continues. :) --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:You are correct. This is not a good argument against luck, even if it is a good point. The work continues. :) --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::Your point about brevity is well taken :-). I'll see what I can add to the arguments here without making it too long-winded. As always, feel free to let me know what you think, of course. -[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 08:23, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Entelechyhttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=18460&oldid=prevKapteeni Ruoska at 04:11, 11 July 20142014-07-11T04:11:05Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay with cutting down the length and number of arguments for not choosing Luck. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I just have some minor suggestions that may be useful for the current arguments:</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay with cutting down the length and number of arguments for not choosing Luck.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)."</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:I answer here between the paragraphs, hope that is okay. I have tried to follow a principle to keep articles short and to the point. People come here for the information, and there are too many long and complicated texts in this world already. :P --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I just have some minor suggestions that may be useful for the current arguments: </ins>"Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)." <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I feel this is only an argument against choosing Luck as a skill because the maximum luck is +3. If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when you already have +3 luck (meaning you could have +6 luck), then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer be a substitute for the skill. So perhaps it is useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">feel this </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">only </del>an argument against choosing <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Luck as a skill because the maximum </del>luck <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">is +3</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when </del>you <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">already </del>have <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">+3 luck (meaning you could have +6 luck), then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a substitute for </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">skill</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">So perhaps it </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</ins>I <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">see your point now. And may I say, it </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">supposed to be </ins>an argument against choosing luck. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">But </ins>you have <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">case here. Perhaps it should </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">just rephrased in another way. Now I got </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">impression, that Luck makes things worse, which is not true</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">It </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">just not worthwhile. --[[User:Kapteeni Ruoska|Kapteeni Ruoska]] 06:11, 11 July 2014 (CEST)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed."</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed." <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This is a good point of course - damage is doubled only when no other damage bonuses are present. However, this is also true for Archery and Offense (their bonus damage is often less than 50% for Archery and less than 30% for Offense), yet both these skills are quite popular. So perhaps some sort of argument can be made here that lucky strikes simply do not occur frequently enough to increase the bonus damage more than Archery and Offense do? -[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 19:46, 10 July 2014 (CEST)</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This is a good point <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">of course - damage is doubled only when no other damage bonuses are present</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">However, this is also true for Archery and Offense (their bonus damage is often less than 50% for Archery and less than 30% for Offense</del>)<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, yet both these skills are quite popular. So perhaps some sort of argument can be made here that lucky strikes simply do not occur frequently enough to increase the bonus damage more than Archery and Offense do? </del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:You are correct. </ins>This <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">is not a good argument against luck, even if it </ins>is a good point. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The work continues. :</ins>) <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-</ins>-[[User:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Kapteeni Ruoska</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Kapteeni Ruoska</ins>]] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">06</ins>:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">11</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">11 </ins>July 2014 (CEST)</div></td></tr>
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</table>Kapteeni Ruoskahttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=18459&oldid=prevEntelechy at 17:48, 10 July 20142014-07-10T17:48:09Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 17:48, 10 July 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)."</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)."</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I feel this is only an argument against choosing Luck as a skill because the maximum luck is +3. If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when you already have +3 luck, then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer be a substitute. So perhaps it is useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I feel this is only an argument against choosing Luck as a skill because the maximum luck is +3. If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when you already have +3 luck <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(meaning you could have +6 luck)</ins>, then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer be a substitute <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">for the skill</ins>. So perhaps it is useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed."</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed."</div></td></tr>
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</table>Entelechyhttps://heroes.thelazy.net//index.php?title=Talk:Luck_(secondary_skill)&diff=18458&oldid=prevEntelechy: Created page with "Hi Kapteeni Ruoska, Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay wi..."2014-07-10T17:46:24Z<p>Created page with "Hi Kapteeni Ruoska, Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay wi..."</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>Hi Kapteeni Ruoska,<br />
Thanks for critically going over the changes I made to this page (and, for that matter, for the huge number of contributions you made so far ;-)). I'm okay with cutting down the length and number of arguments for not choosing Luck. I just have some minor suggestions that may be useful for the current arguments:<br />
<br />
"Positive luck can often be obtained fairly easily through certain artifacts and adventure map locations (e.g. Fountain of Fortune)."<br />
<br />
I feel this is only an argument against choosing Luck as a skill because the maximum luck is +3. If learning Luck would also add +3 to your luck when you already have +3 luck, then artifacts and adventure map locations can no longer be a substitute. So perhaps it is useful to also explain here that there is a limit to positive luck and that this can already be achieved without the skill?<br />
<br />
"In the case of lucky strike, only base damage is doubled, which means that benefits from Archery or Offense are not taken into account. This means that the total damage is not doubled, as it might be assumed."<br />
<br />
This is a good point of course - damage is doubled only when no other damage bonuses are present. However, this is also true for Archery and Offense (their bonus damage is often less than 50% for Archery and less than 30% for Offense), yet both these skills are quite popular. So perhaps some sort of argument can be made here that lucky strikes simply do not occur frequently enough to increase the bonus damage more than Archery and Offense do? <br />
-[[User:Entelechy|Entelechy]] 19:46, 10 July 2014 (CEST)</div>Entelechy