Heroes 3 wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Secondary skill

2021-03-29T20:07:36Z

Juq:

== need source ==
Although in the original {{roe}} there was an [[adventure map]] location called [[market of time]], which supposedly was intended to allow hero to "forget" secondary skills.

== Bad Hero & No Artifacts (TheKnownWorld/MeKick) ==
[[Talk:Secondary_skill/Bad_Hero_No_Artifacts|Bad Hero & No Artifacts]]

== static numeration ==
Is it just me or is the formatting terribly off for the static numeration? - juq
:Probably depends on your skin. Do you know which one you are using? Posting a screenshot would also help us figure it out. [https://snipboard.io snipboard.io] is pretty easy to use. [[user:imahero|ima]] 21:59, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
::hxxps://i.snipboard.io/H5R8bo.jpg. Because the width of the chart is shortened many of the secondary skills are taking up 2 lines, thus we have this. - juq
:::Mine doesn't seem to have that problem: [https://i.snipboard.io/6Cx4hu.jpg i.snipboard.io/6Cx4hu.jpg] Which internet browser are you using? [[user:imahero|ima]] 00:16, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
::::How does the page look here: [https://web.archive.org/web/20210323001338/https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Secondary_skill web.archive.org/Secondary_skill]? [[user:imahero|ima]] 00:19, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::I use Yandex Browser, based on Chromium. - Juq

Talk:Secondary skill

2021-03-22T23:11:17Z

Juq:

== need source ==
Although in the original {{roe}} there was an [[adventure map]] location called [[market of time]], which supposedly was intended to allow hero to "forget" secondary skills.

== Bad Hero & No Artifacts (TheKnownWorld/MeKick) ==
[[Talk:Secondary_skill/Bad_Hero_No_Artifacts|Bad Hero & No Artifacts]]

== static numeration ==
Is it just me or is the formatting terribly off for the static numeration? - juq
:Probably depends on your skin. Do you know which one you are using? Posting a screenshot would also help us figure it out. [https://snipboard.io snipboard.io] is pretty easy to use. [[user:imahero|ima]] 21:59, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
::hxxps://i.snipboard.io/H5R8bo.jpg. Because the width of the chart is shortened many of the secondary skills are taking up 2 lines, thus we have this. - juq

Talk:Secondary skill

2021-03-22T19:57:40Z

Juq: /* static numeration */ new section

== need source ==
Although in the original {{roe}} there was an [[adventure map]] location called [[market of time]], which supposedly was intended to allow hero to "forget" secondary skills.

== Bad Hero & No Artifacts ==
{| cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 width=200px style="background-color:#{{green 4}}; text-align:left; border:1px solid; float:left; margin-right:20px;"
! MeKick's ranking
|-
|- style="background-color:#{{Green 2}};"
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Navigation.png|22px|link=]] 1: Navigation
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert First Aid.png|22px|link=]] 2: First Aid
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Eagle Eye.png|22px|link=]] 3: Eagle Eye
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Learning.png|22px|link=]] 4: Learning
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Scholar.png|22px|link=]] 5: Scholar
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Estates.png|22px|link=]] 6: Estates
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Mysticism.png|22px|link=]] 7: Mysticism
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Artillery.png|22px|link=]] 8: Artillery
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Scouting.png|22px|link=]] 9: Scouting
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Pathfinding.png|22px|link=]] 10: Pathfinding
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Diplomacy.png|22px|link=]] 11: Diplomacy
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Sorcery.png|22px|link=]] 12: Sorcery
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Resistance.png|22px|link=]] 13: Resistance
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Ballistics.png|22px|link=]] 14: Ballistics
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Archery.png|22px|link=]] 15: Archery
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Luck.png|22px|link=]] 16: Luck
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Leadership.png|22px|link=]] 17: Leadership
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Intelligence.png|22px|link=]] 18: Intelligence
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Water Magic.png|22px|link=]] 19: Water Magic
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Fire Magic.png|22px|link=]] 20: Fire Magic
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Earth Magic.png|22px|link=]] 21: Earth Magic
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Air Magic.png|22px|link=]] 22: Air Magic
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Tactics.png|22px|link=]] 23: Tactics
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Armorer.png|22px|link=]] 24: Armorer
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Offense.png|22px|link=]] 25: Offense
|-
|- style="background-color:#{{Green 2}};"
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Wisdom.png|22px|link=]] 26: Wisdom
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Necromancy.png|22px|link=]] 27: Necromancy
|-
| height=25px | [[File: Expert Logistics.png|22px|link=]] 28: Logistics
|}

The Heroes 3 Streamer/Youtuber MeKick (also known as TheKnownWorld) for his singleplayer challenge of "Bad Hero & No Artifacts" played with the following self-imposed rules for himself:

* Equipping artifacts is not allowed.
* Player heroes can not go to map objects that improve their abilities ([[Learning Stone]], [[School of Magic]], [[University]], etc).
* Upon every level up, pick the pre-determined "worse" option of the skills offered.
* No joining monsters.

The settings were as follows:

* Shadow of Death
* Random map template 8XM12a, Size XL+U
* 8 human/computer player FFA
* No water, Stone or Cobblestone Roads, and Strong Monsters
* Impossible difficulty
* Player starting town/hero/bonus: Fortress/[[Voy]]/Gold
* All computer starting towns/heroes/bonuses: random

As such, the predetermined list MeKick made for the following situation is on the left.

The ranking of these skills are up to debate and some of the positions are highly situational. [[Scouting]] and [[Scholar]] are extremely situational; on a main hero they can be considered wasted slots like [[Eagle Eye]] or [[First Aid]] as both are centered around helping other heroes rather than being a bonus for the hero that has them, but on expendable scout or transport secondary heroes they are considered some of the best skills to have. [[Navigation]] and [[Water Magic]] both greatly increase on value with maps with considerable waterways; the School of Water Magic has 3 adventure spells that only work on water. [[Pathfinding]] is a more valuable on maps without roads or with few roads that have adverse terrain, though it can be completely replaced by [[Wayfarer's Boots]] in [[Horn of the Abyss]].

[[First Aid]] is put in 2nd place as MeKick can not use artifacts including war machines; another completely useless skill, while [[Artillery]] is also put lower than it normally would be as the ballista can not be used, but it can still give control over arrow towers in a siege.

[[Diplomacy]] is put in 11th, as its main use, attracting monsters to your army, is forbidden by his own rule; and he can't visit a Library of Enlightenment at all. Its only use becomes lowering the surrender cost.

The changes [[Horn of the Abyss]] brings further possible changes to the ranking. [[Estates]], [[Mysticism]], [[Scouting]] have all been buffed, while [[Diplomacy]], [[Intelligence]], and [[Earth Magic]] have been weakened.

== static numeration ==

Is it just me or is the formatting terribly off for the static numeration? - juq

Eagle Eye

2021-03-20T20:30:01Z

Juq: Removed weird EE shilling in fanopinion. It is NEVER useful.

{{Secondary skills}}
{{Secondary skill
| B_effect = gives your hero a 40% chance to learn any 1st or 2nd level spell used in combat.
| A_effect = gives your hero a 50% chance to learn any spell up to 3rd level used in combat.
| E_effect = gives your hero a 60% chance to learn any spell up to 4th level used in combat.
}}

'''Eagle Eye''' gives heroes a chance to learn [[spells]] cast by enemy hero spellcasters in battles. The spells are learned after the fight is won. The chances for each level of Eagle Eye can be seen on the table below. Also requires Wisdom of the appropriate level, to learn spells.

{| border="1"
|+
|-
! Level
! Chance to learn
! Maximum level
|-
| Basic
| 40%
| Second
|-
| Advanced
| 50%
| Third
|-
| Expert
| 60%
| Fourth
|}

'''Heroes with Eagle Eye as a starting skill:'''
*{{H2|Ash|Heretic}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Geon|Warlock}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Malcom|Druid}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Nimbus|Necromancer}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Oris|Battle Mage}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Sanya|Cleric}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Serena|Wizard}} - Basic Eagle Eye
*{{H2|Tiva|Witch}} - Basic Eagle Eye

'''Heroes who specialize in Eagle Eye:'''
*{{H2|Geon|Warlock}}
*{{H2|Malcom|Druid}}
*{{H2|Nimbus|Necromancer}}
*{{H2|Oris|Battle Mage}}
*{{H2|Sanya|Cleric}}
*{{H2|Serena|Wizard}}
*{{H2|Tiva|Witch}}

'''Artifacts affecting Eagle Eye:'''
*{{An|Bird of Perception}} - gives a 5% bonus to Eagle Eye
*{{An|Stoic Watchman}} - gives a 10% bonus to Eagle Eye
*{{An|Emblem of Cognizance}} - gives a 15% bonus to Eagle Eye

== Chance to get ==
{{Secondary skill chance explanation}}
{{ZET SEC SKILL CHANCE TABLE| 2| 6| 2| 7| 3| 8| 3| 4| 4| 7| 2| 8| 2| 5| 1 (lowest)|10 (highest)| 2| 8| 4| 2}}
|}

== Importance ==
{{fanopinion}}
Generally, Eagle Eye is considered one of, if not the least desirable secondary skill, as the preferred ones are those which improve units' strength ([[Archery]], [[Armorer]], [[Offense]]), help in casting spells (various schools of magic), or make gameplay significantly easier ([[Diplomacy]], [[Logistics]], [[Tactics]]). However, it may limitedly help when it's impossible to get a spell from your town's [[Mage Guild]] (e.g. [[Bless]] in [[Inferno]], or [[Curse]] in [[Castle]] and [[Rampart]]) and you are expecting to fight a battle against another player early on in the game, before you can find a shrine for it. Together with advanced or expert [[Wisdom]], Expert Eagle Eye may be situationally usable for [[Stronghold]] and [[Fortress]] heroes, as their Mage Guilds are limited to 3rd level, and learning [[Resurrection]] and having Advanced [[Earth Magic]] could change the whole dynamics of battle.

Part of the criticism behind Eagle Eye is that even with Expert Eagle Eye and all 3 of the Eagle Eye artifacts equipped, it still can not guarantee learning a spell used in combat, totalling to a 90% effectiveness rate. Other flaws include requiring the battle to either be lost or to be won before the spells are added into the spellbook, inability to learn 5th level spells, and inability to learn adventure map spells. Thus it earns its place as a common laughingstock of a skill, very rarely ever coming in handy.

{{secondary skill 'see also'}}

[[Category: Secondary skills]]