Editing Talk:Defense

=Defense vs. Defence=

This page had discussion content instead of game content (see below).  The discussion was about the appropriateness of different spellings: "Defence" and "Defense".  The page creator (who wrote the first line, below) preferred the British English spelling of "Defence"; the responder (who wrote the other two lines) preferred "Defense."

In my view, these opinions are irrelevant in resolving this issue: what's important for wiki page content is accuracy in reflecting the game content.  Heroes uses standard American English spellings, including in this case "Defense."  (Note: Neither spelling is incorrect; the "correct" spelling simply depends on the context: in this case, an American game publication.)

I've updated the page to redirect to the (already developed) [[Defense]] page.

==>Page content before the update<==

Defence is the British English spelling of the word.

In Heroes III it is always spelled as "Defense".

See [[Defense]] for info. <small><span class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User: Memetics | Memetics ]] ([[User talk: Memetics |talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ Memetics |contribs]])  06:28, 26 June 2012‎  (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> 

:comparison of txt files from H3 Complete and Heroes Chronicles: Chapter 8 - The Sword of Frost (obviously european edition):

:{| class="wikitable"
! US !! UK
|-
| defense || defence
|-
| rumor || rumour
|-
| instill || instil
|-
| channeled || channelled
|-
| neighboring || neighbouring
|-
| sulfur || sulphur
|-
| honor || honour
|-
| demeanor || demeanour
|-
| favorable || favourable
|-
| dilligence || diligence
|-
| offense || offence
|-
| armorer || armourer
|-
| color || colour
|-
| behavior || behaviour
|-
| travelers || travellers
|}

:since we have the proof of the existence of british localization for HC, we can admit the existence of such localizations for the previous H3 versions either. so 'In Heroes III it is always spelled as "Defense"' doesnt sound so convincing. i do not consider this a reason for changing our spelling policy though. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 00:18, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
::is it really though? maybe they just hired a british guy to write chapter 8 of heroes chronicles. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 01:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
:::Check the copy of the Fiery Moon that came with this copy of the Sword of Frost. I'm guessing you'll find these lines:
:::*"There is still '''''honor''''' in our Barbarian hearts, which assures me that I still might be able to repair the damage I caused."
:::*"Sparkling Bridge into the choking heat of a blackened landscape.  The sky above is the '''''color''''' of charcoal; a churning, chaotic storm glowing with an occasional purple spark of lightning."
:::*"These Demons believed in nothing but destruction.  '''''Honor''''' meant nothing to them.  Wherever they went, I imagined Skizzik's kind turning every world into a copy of this Fiery Moon."
:::[[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 02:06, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
::::yup, that proves that they didnt hire a british guy to write Chronicles.
::::and thats not the exclusive part 8 thing, i just took the last one to check the most recent fixes. here is my old screenshot from chapter 1, i suppose: https://i.snipboard.io/JD9cls.jpg 
::::so someone considered this topic important enough to change the spelling in the main game archive (lbitmap.lod), which is common for all 8 chapters (the fixes are not all about us-uk spelling, some text errors are fixed there as well), but not cared to look through the all the campaign stuff for each chapter. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 13:38, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::It proves the opposite. The chronicles were '''not''' made at the same time. They were made and released separately. Check your copy of ''Fiery Moon'''. If it also contains US spellings it provides more evidence to the idea that chapter eight and whichever other chapter you posted a screenshot from were made by British folks. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 13:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Search for the lost localizations==
+=Defense vs. Defence=
+This page had discussion content instead of game content (see below).  The discussion was about the appropriateness of different spellings: "Defence" and "Defense".  The page creator (who wrote the first line, below) preferred the British English spelling of "Defence"; the responder (who wrote the other two lines) preferred "Defense."
+In my view, these opinions are irrelevant in resolving this issue: what's important for wiki page content is accuracy in reflecting the game content.  Heroes uses standard American English spellings, including in this case "Defense."  (Note: Neither spelling is incorrect; the "correct" spelling simply depends on the context: in this case, an American game publication.)
+I've updated the page to redirect to the (already developed) [[Defense]] page.
+==>Page content before the update<==
 Defence is the British English spelling of the word.
@@ Line 6: / Line 15: @@
 See [[Defense]] for info. <small><span class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User: Memetics | Memetics ]] ([[User talk: Memetics |talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ Memetics |contribs]])  06:28, 26 June 2012‎  (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
-:comparison of txt files (namely HeroBios.txt (hero biographies), SSTRAITS.TXT (secondary skills' names and descriptions), EDITOR.TXT (map editor ui text), SeerHut.txt), from H3 Complete (Data > H3bitmap.lod > ) and Heroes Chronicles: Chapter 8 - The Sword of Frost (Data > lbitmap.lod > ; the content of the 'Data' folder is the same for all  the chapters (or at least 1, 6 and 8)):
+:comparison of txt files from H3 Complete and Heroes Chronicles: Chapter 8 - The Sword of Frost (obviously european edition):
 :{| class="wikitable"
@@ Line 52: / Line 61: @@
 ::::and thats not the exclusive part 8 thing, i just took the last one to check the most recent fixes. here is my old screenshot from chapter 1, i suppose: https://i.snipboard.io/JD9cls.jpg
 ::::so someone considered this topic important enough to change the spelling in the main game archive (lbitmap.lod), which is common for all 8 chapters (the fixes are not all about us-uk spelling, some text errors are fixed there as well), but not cared to look through the all the campaign stuff for each chapter. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 13:38, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
-:::::It proves the opposite. The chronicles were '''not''' made at the same time. They were made and released separately. Check your copy of '''Fiery Moon'''. If it also contains US spellings it provides more evidence to the idea that chapter eight and whichever other chapter you posted a screenshot from were made by British folks. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 13:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
+:::::It proves the opposite. The chronicles were '''not''' made at the same time. They were made and released separately. Check your copy of ''Fiery Moon'''. If it also contains US spellings it provides more evidence to the idea that chapter eight and whichever other chapter you posted a screenshot from were made by British folks. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 13:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
-::::::The file I got the text from was binary. I had to unzip it and then open it in notepad (still binary but plain text is searchable). Then I searched for the words. If you are unwilling I can go through the process more thoroughly for each of the different chronicles. Honestly this is also part of the reverse engineering project I'm also working on right now. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 15:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::oh, wait, im not trying to say there were no british involved in all this HC business. i think all HC chapters were made with usual sulfur, honor and offense, (your campaign text examples are supporting this), and there should be disks with the original version somewhere. but then someone in charge thought its important enough to turn defense into defence for the european (canadian? australian?) edition (skipping campaign texts, which is understandable, cause the extra binary fun was involved). and this exact edition has been taken as basic by GOG. since the xlBitmap.lod's last edit shows us May 2001, it cannot be some GOG's tinkering.
-:::::::the question is if it was the first english-to-english localization or there already were SoD or Complete versions with rumours and armourers. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 16:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::how exactly is called ur Tarnum's primary skill placed between Attack and Power in Fiery Moon btw? --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 16:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
-::::::::I've uploaded all of the text from the .h3c files. Now all we need is someone to upload alternate versions of those files in the opposite localization. Then we can have closure and peace. And then go back to editing more text files. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 17:49, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::::found them. turned out there were manuals in some chapters: https://snipboard.io/FNbUGm.jpg. defence and honour all along the text (still artifacts though), but defense on illustrations. internet [https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/politics-and-business-magazines/3do-company said] that 3DO Europe Ltd. was opened about 1999-early 2000: ''"Operations opened in the United Kingdom to begin distribution throughout Europe."''
-:::::::::and i found this: [https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1aic0f7241f29ur/AABBTU7jwVAhwyBhpjOZTdLqa/HoMM%20III/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BA%D0%B8%2C%20%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D1%8B%20%D0%B8%20%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B/Restoration%20of%20Erathia?dl=0&preview=34616-heroes-of-might-and-magic-iii-the-restoration-of-erathia-windows-back-cover.jpg&subfolder_nav_tracking=1 Ubisoft RoE UK backcover] [https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1aic0f7241f29ur/AABBTU7jwVAhwyBhpjOZTdLqa/HoMM%20III/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BA%D0%B8%2C%20%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D1%8B%20%D0%B8%20%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B/Restoration%20of%20Erathia?dl=0&preview=34617-heroes-of-might-and-magic-iii-the-restoration-of-erathia-windows-media.jpg&subfolder_nav_tracking=1 Ubisoft RoE UK disk]. never thought they kept selling just RoE, but the idea sounds extremely ubisoft. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 18:38, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
-::::::::::I want to see the US versions of [[Revolt of the Beastmasters]] and [[The Sword of Frost]] (still not entirely convinced they even exist). And if they '''do''' exist, I want to know why good old games packaged the first six in en-us and then the final two in en-gb. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 18:56, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::::::ok. the attempt to find any traces of pre-gog HC playthroughs on youtube was a mistake. but at least i discovered that some people play heroes without even opening the hero screen. as for the subject: all the chapters in gog are localized - all the main game files are the same for all the parts, sulphur in mines and travellers in seer's hut texts in all of them. [[Revolt of the Beastmasters]] and [[The Sword of Frost]] are the ones which were localized '''properly''', - it looks like they just discovered there is a campaign content to fix as well. i cannot see any intentional politics in gog's version choice; the knowledge of US-UK H3 localizations exististence is not so common after all.--[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 11:41, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
-::::::::::::I believe the main data text files were taken from [[The Final Chapters]] and that originally each chapter had its own version of those files. Too bad we don't have someone who separately collected each of these chapters as they were released. [[File:Hero Stormblessed small.gif|→ima|link=user:imahero]] 12:02, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
-::::::::::::i agree. the sitiation cannot be cleared without the originals. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 12:08, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
-::::::::::::: We found the originals on archive.org -- see discord for links -- turns out everything was first done in en-us before the creation of en-gb, etc. –[[user_talk:imahero|imahero]] 19:21, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
-=Defense vs. Defence=
-This page had discussion content instead of game content (see below).  The discussion was about the appropriateness of different spellings: "Defence" and "Defense".  The page creator (who wrote the first line, below) preferred the British English spelling of "Defence"; the responder (who wrote the other two lines) preferred "Defense."
-In my view, these opinions are irrelevant in resolving this issue: what's important for wiki page content is accuracy in reflecting the game content.  Heroes uses standard American English spellings, including in this case "Defense."  (Note: Neither spelling is incorrect; the "correct" spelling simply depends on the context: in this case, an American game publication.)
-I've updated the page to redirect to the (already developed) [[Defense]] page.