Editing Talk:Imbalance (section)

== And what about imbalance of Conflux? ==

Of course it's only my opinion, but I don't see any need to ban Conflux from the game nor I see with Necropolis. If it's only due to Phoenixes' first turn - wow, shouldn't someone be the fastest in the game? Archangels are the best unit in the game - should Castle be banned then? And while that infernal speed of Phoenixes is a major advantage (which still can be countered - if they wait, kill them by shooting and magic, if they act first, they will be crushed by your troops), there are many disadvantages of Conflux.

First, all units but 1st and 7th can not be resurrected. If undead has its own animating spell, elementals don't have even something like this, thus major parts of Conflux army will never rise after being destroyed. Second, Conflux has very weak 4th and 5th levels. Just imagine, your enemy has Crusaders and you have Energy Elementals, your enemy has Pit Lords and you have Magma Elementals! Third, the way of building Conflux up is very complicated, compared only to Tower and Dungeon. To get anyone but Pixies, you should have a Mage Guild, thus making Conflux very bad on Impossible level (Mage Guilds are usually present at start though, but if not, then you will perhaps use Pixies... or what will you do?) Fourth, you don't have any shooters prior to building upgraded dwellings - if you build them on early stages of the game, you will lose a turn for something strategically important. Basic Air and Water Elementals aren't troops of which you dream every day.

Storm Elementals are very cool units of their level. They have great health and deal good damage. However, they are easily destroyed by Lightning and have awful damage range, thus being useless when cursed. Ice Elementals are mediocre 3rd level shooters, compared only with Orcs, but not with Beholders or Elves.

Vampirism and death stare don't work on Elementals, but hey, you won't always play against Necropolis (which is also banned sometimes) and Fortress. Ironically, Magma Elementals are the best Elementals in spellcasting since they may decrease horrific losses caused by Implosion - but, again, it's very complicated and requires special conditions. Magic Elementals are among the weakest 6th level units (compared with Wyvern Monarchs by their stats), and while they attack like Hydras, it's in little use as they cannot be teleported. If Black Dragons' full magic immunity is a good thing since they fly, are extremely fast, and have tremendous stats, then Magic Elementals' immunity is a double-edged sword since they neither fly nor shoot, and therefore are useless at town sieges - Manticores and Wyverns at least can fly, being a big threat when sieging a town.

Phoenixes are very fast, but at the same time they are very fragile, and someone like Archangel or Ancient Behemoth will tear them into pieces. Possibly, the only thing in Conflux which is anyway at the very top of its level (besides Storm Elementals - in fact, 2-3-4-5 levels are quite close in Conflux, as originally Elementals were meant to be neutral creatures) are Sprites - they are fast flyers with no retaliation, and possibly the only 1st level thing you should be afraid of. However, 3 HPs is extremely low - any decent damage will kill lots of Sprites, and prior to their upgrade they can do nothing, being just the worst in the game (of course, besides ill-fated Peasants).

Myself I consider Dungeon the toughest town in the game. Besides Troglodytes which you possibly will never hire, it provides great warriors. Harpies are imba as they attack without retaliation and return, both shooters are rather strong, Minotaurs strike greatly having an excellent speed when upgraded, and Black Dragons are possibly second best in the game, after Archangels. Even Scorpicores aren't useless, being excellent for rushing through the map, and decent when sieging towns. Armageddon, 5th level Mage Guild, Mana Vortex - whatever you need for a win, you'll find there, and for small maps, Battle Scholar Academy is very helpful as it will easily turn your hero one level up. However, for all this splendour, you should also pay a great price, as Black Dragons cannot be resurrected, which requires very careful fighting and special efforts to protect them.--[[User:Dread Knight|Dread Knight]] ([[User talk:Dread Knight|talk]]) 23:59, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
* UPD: Planeswalkers don't increase speed of the elementals which are their specialties, and don't increase their stats for ''every'' level. Of course, it is "the other side of the medal" as Elementalists have a school of magic at start (which is a pure imba), however, Conflux might want to have a better fighter hero.--[[User:Dread Knight|Dread Knight]] ([[User talk:Dread Knight|talk]]) 10:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

::Conflux as it is in AB/SoD is broken too. Way way WAY too strong early game with very good to best 1-3 level troops. Overall very high Speed & low gold costs. No retal on flying, fast troop that you can get day 1 is brutal. Storm Elementals are pretty much level 3 creatures and countering them requires very specific spells which you may or may not get. Magic University & Aurora Borealis are so broken, there is no real way to deal with them other than banhammer. 5 of 7 troops cannot be blinded, berserked, hypnotized or neutralized with Forgetfulness. And when you have fast melee army, you dont use Resurrection, you use Haste/Bloodlust or Berserk and strike first HARD instead of getting your troops back, so even if elementals would be salvageable it would still not be very practical to do so. Phoenixes with 4/week base growth and crazy 21 speed may have low stats, but they will screw you up anyway with raw numbers, 2-hex breath attack & Rebirth which means there is 20% more of them. And 21 speed means they usually ARE going first. Which means your army is getting Berserk, Blind, Slow, or a first strike from the whole army of hasted enemy troops, and you stand at disadvantage before you can do anything, and there is just no way of countering that apart from playing Conflux too, which would amount to fighting cheese with more cheese... Grail building = all the spells. Magic Uni = all the X Magic secondaries available, so enjoy Conflux having guaranteed mass spells while you fish for useful skills. Magic Elementals are cheaper, faster Hydras lite, except you cannot slow them down. Weaknesses include some meh mid tier troops and no morale for elementals, but come on, it's 12,5% at best anyway = average 1 extra turn per 8, if this is what you rely on to win battles, you could as well decide the result by dice roll. Oh, and Conflux heroes have either guaranteed Wisdom + magic skill or Tactics/Offense. This alone is "optimized" so much that could be considered broken. Just accept that when vast majority of players say Necropolis & Conflux are broken, there is a good reason for it. Btw Castle is close to being broken too, but buildup cost & meh heroes keep it in A+ tier, not S - [[User:Fafner|Fafner]] ([[User talk:Fafner|talk]]) 20:27, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
:::Grail is not a common thing, and possibly can be banned. As for breath attack, it's not unique (Rampart and Dungeon also have), and is a double-edged sword since it may take out your own troops. However I agree that Conflux has many advantages, but so do Tower and Dungeon which have their own imba buildings - and neither Necropolis nor Conflux have that tremendous troops like Titans and Black Dragons, eternal enemies.

:::PS. If the game is lasting for months (in Heroes terms), ironically Rampart which is in my opinion one of the worst cities gets more and more broken. All its troops are either slow or weak, except for Gold Dragons (however, if your enemy has Implosion, that's probably all), however, you become a millionaire with a Treasury and may buy the entire map.--[[User:Dread Knight|Dread Knight]] ([[User talk:Dread Knight|talk]]) 10:19, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

::::You asked how Conflux is broken, you got the answer. Sure Grail is always a big advantage with its 5000 gold and 50% growth bonus, but compare "all spells available" or "even more Skeletons" to "+2 morale when your heroes have +3 already" or "+2 luck" and draw some conclusion. Only a very bad or very new player would place their own troops in position to be hurt by breath attack of their other troops so it's not like it's dangerous provided you have basic common sense.
The thing with 2 broken towns (Necropolis & Conflux pre-HotA) is that some of their advantages CANNOT be countered in any meaningful way because you need to plan your whole game strategy around it, have certain advantages of good RNG (secondaries, artifacts, spells) while they don't or while they have these abilities from start because hero or Magic Uni, you need to stack Speed artifacts (and you need to have them first) on top of very fast troops just to get even with Phoenixes. And then you have to attack, because if attacker/defender troops have equal Speed, the attacker goes first... Long story short, you need to know the game really well while they don't, you need advantages just to start on (more or less) equal standing, you need special tactics to have any chance at all. No other town in Heroes 3 requires so much to be beaten. No other town has strengths that are impossible to counter... apart from these two. Necropolis can be rushed and outshot, Conflux can be brute forced, but you need to know this, and be able to execute this strategy.
Gold Dragons can be dealt with in other ways than Implosion. And this one requires you to 1) have Implosion 2) have decent Power 3) have 25-30 mana points available 4) be willing to blow your spellcast this turn to deal with 1 troop stack that is likely already in the middle of your formation instead of, say, Blind, Berserk, Slow, (mass) Cure to remove that debuff you got from Gold Dragons' owner, or something that does more than "delete this stack right now". Blowing your mana on big damage spells to scratch one stack instead of disabling the better part of enemy's army or ensuring your own superiority is kinda rookie move of the "laughed upon" variety.
Btw because of how attack/defense/damage calculations work, and how damage/health ratios are set, in endgame high level troops may struggle to pull their own weight while lower levels with their great numbers may outdamage them thanks to better damage scaling, if not necessarily outlast them. Skeleton legions & Master Gremlin gunlines say hello - [[User:Fafner|Fafner]] ([[User talk:Fafner|talk]]) 16:31, 22 April 2021 (UTC)